Broken Bank Notes Message Board

Forum for Obsolete Currency Discussions
It is currently Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:58 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 354 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 24  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:58 pm
Posts: 527
Good morning Greg,

Yes, it is also taking me much longer. I am on the “C’s” of NY. Unraveling the varieties that don’t correspond directly to Haxby numbers seems to take most of the time. I suspect it will be about a month until I finish NY.

Regarding the other sales: I think we should add a column to the spreadsheet and default Christie’s as a blank entry. The others could receive a letter with maybe a year appended?

I have heard that there were other Christie sales but don’t know which ones had US obsoletes. These sales were before I started collecting. The online information also does not go back this far. Does anyone out there know more details?

I also am not sure which Harmer sale you are referring to. The Feb and Oct 2007 ABNC sales had mainly proofs of stocks, bonds, and vignettes with some plates.

I would really like to add the ANR/Stack/Harmer sales that include the obsolete printing plates. This would NOT include the vignette or transfer rolls, only the banknote plates, typically 2 or 4 note plates. The reason I would like to include these plates is because their existence is a potential warning sign for modern pulls from them.

Bernie


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:27 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:11 pm
Posts: 1094
I'm all for tracking the release of the plates, but I think we need to keep them separate from the proofs, or find some way to make it obvious which is which.

As for the Harmer sale, the one I went to was Oct 7. And yes, it was mostly other stuff, but there were a few lots that qualify for this database... I picked up a few of them, too. Obsoletes went from lot 1812 to 1830. I find them interesting because in some cases the notes were not obviously part of the Christie sale. That may change once we have processed the entire catalog. For example, lots 1826 - 1828 were for the Ocean Bank of Stonington, CT. No such bank is shown in the CT section, but those sheets might have been part of some other state's lots as a "together with". If we can attribute all of the notes in the Harmer sale to the prior Christies sale (as I suspect we will), we can safely ignore the Harmer sale. For example, it seems that Harmers lot 1812 (Orange Bank, NJ) could safely be attributed to lots 1013-1017 of the Christies sale. I paid pretty dearly for that note (especially given the number that are likely available)... more than I should, perhaps, but the tinted notes always seem to draw premiums.

The second Christies sale was Nov 28-29, 1990. I have that catalog too, along with prices realized. A lot of Canadian content in that sale... but the thing that drew my attention was the Republic of Hawaii proofs (959-993).

- Greg


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:58 pm
Posts: 527
Greg,

So would you have bid so high if you had the Christie spreadsheet at the time?

It sounds like dealers were in collusion at the November 1990 Christie’s sale.
See for example: http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/1996/Sept96/475at.htm

I found an interesting site ( http://www.hunterian.gla.ac.uk:443/list ... st=auccats ) that lists a lot of the major stamp/coin/banknote auctions.

Approximately how many lots of Canadian Proofs were there in the November 1990 sale?

Bernie


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:58 pm
Posts: 527
I just found an ebay lot (http://cgi.ebay.com/USA-AND-WORLD-BANK- ... dZViewItem ) of 2 Christie catalogues. One of the November 1990 sale. The other of a June 1991 sale that supposedly also has US and Canadian Banknotes. Do you have this catalog? $160 seems a lot.

Bernie


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:39 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:11 pm
Posts: 1094
No, I don't have the 1991 catalog. $160 is a lot. I paid $35 for the 1990 catalog just last year.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:31 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:11 pm
Posts: 1094
I just received an electronic copy of the prices realized from the Christies sale.

I just determined that my Orange Bank note came from one of the five sheets in lot 1017 that had the background tint... that makes it one of ten known to exist. Lot 1017 closed at 3850 (w/BP) in 1990, so I guess I didn't do so badly after all.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:58 pm
Posts: 527
Thanks a lot for the Prices Realized.

I wonder why the estimates were so low, generally by factors of 4 to 7. This also happened in the Spink sale in 1997 and I got nothing with my mail bids even though I bid several times the low estimate.

Was this also true of the November 1990 sale? Or did the “dealer collusion” hold the prices down?

Bernie


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:04 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:11 pm
Posts: 1094
As a guess, I doubt they had any real notion what to expect in the September sale, since that was the first full-on public release of banknote proofs ever.

I did not analyze the catalog for the November sale in any serious detail to be able to answer your question. However, if you have the November catalog, here are the prices realized for that sale.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:47 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:11 pm
Posts: 1094
I'm thrilled to announce that I finally finished processing the Connecticut section of the catalog. This is not to say that the CT section of the database is complete. There are almost certainly more notes listed in the rest of the catalog as "mounted together with" entries for other state's listings. But it does mean I am past lot 150 in the catalog, and quite glad to be done with CT for now.

I have to say it is quite a challenge knowing when to create duplicate rows in the spreadsheet in order to differentiate between notes under the same imprint with variations (e.g. the overprints or the tints), especially when you encounter subsequent listings that say "seven sheets, as above" and the seven sheets listed in the priot lot were a mish-mash of types. Gave me quite a headache processing the last ten lots in CT. One listing in particular had two dffierent types of $1 notes on the same sheet... one listed in Haxby, and one not. I decided in that csae not to create a separate entry, even though the unlisted $1 would be unique (so far)... mainly because I couldn't say what it was (other than an unlisted note from that bank).

So how goes the work on NY?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:58 pm
Posts: 527
Greg,

I have also done about 150 lots (1060 to 1310) with about 80 to go. These also include about 20 sheets from several other states. I have entered over 280 rows. I hope to be done in about a week.

As you say it has been extremely tedious. I have tried to keep separate rows for different notes of the same denomination even if they came from the same sheet. I then explained it in the “notes” column.

I find that the “condition” information in the notes column also takes a lot of time. We should have used some abbreviations. That is:
w for wrinkling
c for creases
t for tears
s for soiling
m for mounted
mc for mounted on card
st for stamped
etc.

Since I am close to being done with NY, I will continue to write out the “note conditions”. Since you have a long way to go, I suggest you start using abbreviations.

I am also thinking about the following (for NY):

1. Adding the other catalogs as we mentioned earlier.
2. Color coding the notes that are also listed as having proofs in Haxby. I am thinking of making the background of the appropriate cell say yellow.
3. Figuring out from 2. and the rest of the NY Haxby notes that are listed as having proofs (but not in Christie’s) about what fraction of proofs might be listed in Christie’s. Looking at the images of proofs that I have collected over the years, I suspect that Christie’s might amount to about ½ of the total face different proofs available.

Bernie


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:39 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:11 pm
Posts: 1094
Sounds like a great use of the data. I'm still hoping to stumle into an affordable copy of Haxbys at some time. I checked recently and the cheapest set I could find was $1250.

Incidentally, the thought keeps occurring to me that I ought to have a separate column (separated from Notes) to hold the imprint information. I'm using the abbreviations in the catalog as the first part of the Notes now, so a user could sort by it... but something tells me that when I convert it to database I'll want a separate field. I haven't made the change yet because I don't want to slow down the data entry any more than I already have. ;)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:58 pm
Posts: 527
I also thought about a column for the imprint since Christie lists it for every sheet. However, I have only been entering the imprint if it is different from Haxby. If it is, I entered it in the Haxby number column since it distinguishes it as a variety.

Regarding the availability of Haxby’s catalog, I have seen individual volumes go for about $200 on ebay.

Bernie


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:58 pm
Posts: 527
Greg,

Bookfinders.com has a copy for $825. This is about as good as it gets these days.

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDet ... 0873410432


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:58 pm
Posts: 527
Another one is available for $1000 at half.com


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:30 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:11 pm
Posts: 1094
Bernie wrote:
Greg,

Bookfinders.com has a copy for $825. This is about as good as it gets these days.

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDet ... 0873410432


Thanks for the pointer. I just placed the order.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 354 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 24  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group