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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:12 pm 
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The souvenir cards are actually quite well done. This of course means that they are also dangerous. I have seen some notes cut out from the cards that were advertised as "proofs". So having some of them to compare to the "real ones" is actually insurance against not buying cut-outs from the cards as the "real thing."

Bernie


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:20 pm 
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Having seen the real things go on sale a couple of times now, I'm fairly confident I won't be buying any. I was amazed at the Harmer sale how far beyond the estimates they went. I actually considered saving some of my money to buy one or two there. If I'd done that I would have walked out of the show with exactly one note ... if I was lucky. And that doesn't even factor in that I'd already bought some stock certificate proofs at that auction, so I didn't have the full complement of my cash reserves anyway. :)

Seriously, I'm not that big a playa.

- Greg


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:31 am 
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Bernie, you mentioned writing aa article for Paper Money describing this project. Did you want to do that, or should I do it, or should we co-author it. I'm open to anything. I'd like to get it written soon, so we might be able to get more people involved in the project. I'm not sure when the submission deadline is for any given issue, but it's probably months away from actual publication.

Any thoughts?

- Greg


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:43 pm 
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We should probably co-author the paper.
It will be nice to get more people involved in the project.
I am somewhat surprised that no one has commented on our over 60 posts?

I don’t think there is any great urgency in getting a paper out ASAP. I was hoping to see what could be done with the final data. I anticipate doing some “population” analysis that we should publish, then get people interested in the database (and your board) and see what else comes out of the data.

What analysis did you have in mind?

Although all of the information that is in the database is available in the Christie catalog, the greatest value of the data, as collected, might be in how one bids at auction for these notes. I know that it has already influenced my bidding. It will probably influence others also. Will it drive prices up or down?

Bernie


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:54 pm 
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I have added information from the Schingoethe (part 14) auction for NY. There were about 70 NY proofs. Given the previous 13 sales, they must have acquired a significant fraction of the both the Christie’s and the Spink lots.

It was usually obvious that the notes came from either Christie’s or Spink. However, there were several proofs that came from neither sale and were listed as SENC in Haxby. I am being very careful to not double count.

I will add the other Schingoethe sales and maybe research the Heritage site to see if there is additional information out there.

Bernie


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:56 pm 
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Yes, it is odd that nobody else is commenting. I can tell people are reading the posts. Mostly they aren't logged in (showing up as Guests).

As for the analysis, I haven't really decided on any particular angle for that. I suppose the thing I want to do is to call out anything remarkable we may uncover... not so much because I want to make remarkable discoveries, but because I think that will generate the most interest in the project.

My thought is that it would be nice to have some additional assistance. You've done a great job showing what ought to be done... the NY section incorporates data from multiple sources. I'm still slogging through single source data for the other states. When we start to incorporate the Haxby data into the other states and then the Spinks data, and any other data that may be available, the 150 hour project will balloon to a 1000 hour project. Also, it might be that someone else would have knowledge of or access to information sources you and I haven't considered. It would just be nice to have more eyes and brains on the project to insure we don't make a critical error or overlook a potential gold mine.

- Greg


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:57 pm 
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By the way, you may inadvertently be double counting now... remember, there are some NY notes you don't know about because they are in other state's listings. I've uncovered 10 so far, and I'm only up to lot 675.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:15 pm 
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That is why I was careful in noting the lot # of the non-NY proofs that were in the NY section. That way we can reconcile potential double counting.

Bernie


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:31 am 
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Another question for you...

I just encountered an interesting lot... #711. It states in the listing "printed on regular bank note paper and are not believed to be proofs". It also notes that they are printed on both sides, which to my way of thinking corroborates the assert that they are not proofs. Since this database is ostensible about proofs, I'm wondering how we should handle this.

The question for you is did you encounter anything like this in the NY listings? If so, how did you handle it?

For the moment I have them in the database, but highlighted with a lilac color.

- Greg


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:59 am 
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This sounds more like either a remainder or an unmarked specimen. Both of these areas are HUGE and I don't think we want to get into them, partially because there are many times a large number of specimens and a huge number of remainders available. I thought that the idea with the proof spreadsheet was that there are typically only a few proofs available and therefore rather scarce and even potentially trackable?

I don't recall seeing any like this in the NY section.

Bernie


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:03 pm 
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Yes, that is the idea... but because these notes fall into a questionable area, I wanted to see if you'd hit anything like this. I'm inclined to remove them, because I really have no interest in tracking remainders or specimens. But now that I think on it, I have hit a few other listings that indicated they had "Specimen" printed somewhere on the note. I'll check on that later.

By the way, I made another minor format change. I altered the column headers on the fractionals to have the cent sign and to use the 1/4 and 1/2 symbols instead of the spelled out decimal value. Looks neater, but serves no particular useful purpose other than appearance.

- Greg


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:38 pm 
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So what are all of the denomination columns that you are presently using?
Bernie


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:55 pm 
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On a related item, I am running across proofs of "certificates of deposits". Haxby typically does not list these. The NY section of Christie's had several. Some had a specific denomination while others did not. The Schingoethe catalogs had several that were not in Christies. One of these did not have a denomination. Some of the "Post Notes" also did not have denominations. How about a column that covers these non-denomination proofs, maybe after the $5000 column?

Bernie


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:29 pm 
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Sounds good. I've hit a number of those too. The catalog almost never provides images of those, though, so we'll have to see what we can find.

I've also seen a number of "notes of exchange" and scrip proofs. Some of them have dual denominations (usually cents and miles on a RR). I note the alternate denomination in the notes section, but put the notes in the database based on the monetary denomination, obviously. One (so far) had a dual denomination of dollars and British Pounds, the notes being redeemable at a specific bank in London.

- Greg


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:06 pm 
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So how many pounds and dollars on that note?

Bernie


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