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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:18 am 
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Every collecting hobby I've ever been involved with has a similar problem... once a collectible reaches a certain tier of value, someone will come along and produce copies of the collectible to milk the market.

In obsolete currency this is most often seen as modern reprints of old proof notes or reprints of extremely rare issued or remainder notes. Ebay is awash in the reproduction prints of proof notes, and any search of proof notes will yield many, usually for sale as repros priced low... but sometimes showing up as the real thing, and sometimes even in TPG slabs having been graded as authentic notes.

I'd like to open a discussion about these fakes and see if we can come to something of a concensus about what's really intended to deceive and what is just being mass produced to take advantage of collector interest in known repros.

I'd also like us to build a lexicon of the terms that pertain in this area. Here are the terms that jump to mind for me:

Essay:

Proof:

Proprietary Proof:

Special Proof:

Reproduction:

Modern Pull:

Contemporary Counterfeit:

Feel free to relate examples that help underscore the reasons for your definitions.

- Greg


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:50 pm 
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I would really like to learn more about this topic. There are some terms you post here that I have not heard or have heard but don't know the meaning of...as I delve further into the hobby I think my collection would be better off if I knew what that meant...Obviously I would prefer to get genuine original notes...

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:53 pm 
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I like Berny's definition of "contemporary counterfeit" over on the PCGS board, which was essentially a counterfeit created at the same time the genuine notes were circulating. This could be tweaked to "when the bank in question was in business" which gets the idea across, but have some issues (right after a bank goes under, or after a bank converted to National Bank status).

We need to include Altered, Raised and Spurious notes, of course, but those terms (as well as essay) are pretty well defined:
Altered = genuine note from one bank modified to appear to be a note from another bank
Raised = genuine note from a bank modified to appear to be a note from that same bank, but of higher denomination
Spurious = note designed to look to be a note from a particular bank, but not resembling any genuine issue from that bank

I would classify "proof" as a note printed for the approval of a bank, before printing the notes for circulation, but you all might have a better working definition.

Proprietary proof, modern pull, etc. are all variations of examples printed from actual plates, but after the bank (or at least that issue of notes) is long gone. Distinctions can be made, but I don't care -- I don't want any of them.

Reproductions would be examples not printed from original plates, I guess. I'm still appalled that they could find a better Granville, OH $3 to photocopy. You know, at least one that's rectangular? :)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:08 pm 
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I've come to the understanding that there are several types of proofs, not all of which were for bank approval. Here's a partial list off the top of my head...

Preliminary essay: Hand written notations with just brief descriptions of vignette placement. Probably used only by the order taker to capture the desires of the bank manager.

First mock up: Usually has vignettes and counters only... if that. Probably used strictly by the printing company.

Primary essay: Will have vignettes and counters and possibly the bank name and other text. Textual elements may also be cut out or absent.

Plate proof: Proof printing of an individual plate (of a multi-plate printing). Likely used only at the printing company to verify quality of the plate.

Type Proof: Full proof of the combination of elements that comprise the finished note. May have variations from issued notes, such as colors, overprint types. May also contain hand written changes or approvals.

Final proof: Contains all the final elements of the issued notes.

Proof reprint: Reprint using the original plates.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:43 am 
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Hey Greg, I have been delving into these definitions and issues recently. Let me make a suggestion. How about if you use the best definitions that you can find (say from the standard references and/or other posts) and enter them in your top post. This way we could discuss (attack) your definitions until we sort of come up with a consensus? Actually most definitions will be relatively straight forward. This way the best definitions will also be easily found by everyone.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:04 pm 
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Okay... give me a little time to get the standard definitions together.


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